This is a collection of two books.0Book one is a book of painting and poetry formed by a conversation between poet Rachael Allen and artist collective JocJonJosch.0Book two comprises a collection of essays on the expanded practice of JocJonJosch and wider critiques of art practice and production in contemporary culture.0Rachael Allen is the poetry editor for Granta magazine and co-editor of the poetry anthology series Clinic and the online journal Tender.0JocJonJosch is the Swiss-English collective of Joschi Herczeg, Jonathan Brantschen and Joc Marchington.